About Jim
Jim Rigby is a Presbyterian Minister in Austin Texas. In 2007, Jim was named “Texas Public Citizen of the Year” by National Association of Social Workers for his work on gender, economic, and racial issues. Jim has written for Huffington Post, Common Dreams, and other sites, but now his focus is on this blog, as a place for a deeper discussion of the relationship between religion and politics. Is it possible to affirm our different religious (and nonreligious) worldviews in ways that do not lead to intolerance and oppression, or does religion lead inevitably to superstition and sectarian violence? Can we affirm the core values of our own group, and yet, still be good citizens of the world? It is an open question. This site will argue it is possible, if all religions are willing to go through radical reformations to allign themselves to the best science available, to learn to honor artistic expression however different, and to serve universal human rights.
Jim Rigby gives words to so many of my gut feelings and spiritual aha’s that i sometimes get confused about how i could have known that before i heard him say it. More or less. Anyway, truths have a way of being confirmed to us some day by others if we are very “lucky”?
But, I am lazy and just sort of wandering seeker of what seems true to me in the eternal scheme of things. Jim Rigby does the work of finding confirmations of these intuitions i believe we all have if we are aware. He has tools to do this and is not lazy about doing it. Why? I don’t know why he does it for sure, but i feel thrilled when he does.
Hello Pastor Jim,
May I have your permission to post this in my church?
Ten Things I wish the Church Knew About Homosexuality
by Jim on February 23, 2012
56
1. If Jesus did not mention a subject, it cannot be essential to his teachings.
2. You are not being persecuted when prevented from persecuting others.
3. Truth isn’t like wine that gets better with age. It’s more like manna you must recognize wherever you are and whoever you are with.
4. You cannot call it “special rights” when someone asks for the same rights you have.
6. Marriage is a civil ceremony, which means it’s a civil right.
7. If how someone stimulates the pubic nerve has become the needle to your moral compass, you are the one who is lost.
8. To condemn homosexuality, you must use parts of the Bible you don’t yourself obey. Anyone who obeyed every part of Leviticus would rightly be put in prison.
9. If we do not do the right thing in our day, our grandchildren will look at us with same embarrassment we look at racist grandparents.
10. When Jesus forbade judging, that included you.
Jim (and Jeff as well!),
If I can, I’d like to just add a follow-up to Jeff’s request. Or, perhaps, a request regarding how you respond to his.
I suggest that, rather than responding to his request for permission (which addresses only this one particular reuse instance), you instead make a general statement regarding re-use of your writing here, so that anyone wanting to do so now or in the future will know where they stand without having to first petition you directly.
The simplest solution, and one that works for many content creators online, may be to choose the Creative Commons license that best expresses your intentions, and explicitly license all of the posts on your blog under the terms of that license. They have a friendly, fairly simple, explanation-rich “Choose a License” tool over at http://creativecommons.org/ that guides you step-by-step through the process of selecting which of their licenses fits your needs.
Their “by-nc-sa” (or Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike) 3.0 license is a popular one for bloggers and other online publishers. It allows free dissemination and re-use of your writing by anyone, as long as you’re given credit, but doesn’t permit incorporation into any commercial works, and requires that any derivative works be licensed at least as freely as your source material.
Or, if you’d prefer that others disseminate and reproduce your work only in its original & complete form, there’s the “by-nc-nd” (Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs) license, which prohibits alteration or remixing of your freely disseminated, properly-attributed work.
I seem to remember there being a rather well-known saying, something about teaching a man to fish… In that spirit, I urge you to attach explicit license terms to the content you publish online. You’ll have dealt with the question once and for all, and anyone wishing to make use of your work will be presented with clear guidance as to your position on that issue.
The overiding topic aside, I sure hope you are not using these as examples of Reformed theological thinking.
Maybe not Reformed, but definitely Reforming.
@Jeff Edwards. At the top of the site it says: “You are welcome to share anything you find on this site. Please link back to jimrigby.org.”
The Follow Me On Facebook link doesn’t work. Do you have a Facebook? I’d love access to all the stuff you post. It’s right up my alley. 🙂
Kirk, I’m learning the ropes on blogging. I do have a facebook account, but I don’t know about the “follow me” option. I’ll be happy to “friend” if that helps. But I’ll see if I can figure out how to do that.
I am unsure whether I posted my comment earlier, so I’ll try again, hoping this gets through to you. I am a cradle Catholic and a 56 year old gay man who remains steadfast in my faith despite a church hierarchy which is anything but welcoming. I recall sitting in church one Sunday about 30 years ago and listening to an Encyclical on Homosexuality which described me as “objectively disordered” and that my sexuality was “intrinsically evil.” I could remain a Catholic Christian in good standing as long as I subjugated my sexuality and my innate hunger to love and be loved. The memory of that moment fills me with sorrow to this day. Like so many of my gay brothers and sisters, I felt betrayed, angry, assaulted. I nearly said “to hell with it”, believing it folly to want to belong to a community which did not want me (shades of Groucho Marx!). Yet Christ did not leave me orphaned. My beloved Mother, God rest her soul, a person who had a simple childlike love for God, told me to hang on. She knew I would enter a spiritual desert; that I would wander around aimlessly . I was lost. I threw away so much promise. Like so many of my gay friends, I nearly succumbed to my loneliness and despair. This alienation was compounded by the AIDS crisis. I nearly was lost to the antipathy, or perhaps worse, ambivalence which so many of my friends adopted in their relationship to God. Somehow, and by the grace of God, the Light of Christ was not extinguished. It may have dimmed but it never went out — akin to the Miracle of the Maccabees. Finding your blog is like finding a reservoir of oil to keep the Light of Christ alive. I have profound trust that “even if a mother could forsake her child, I will never abandon you.” Thank you friend, from the depths of my soul and the marrow of my being, Thank you and God bless you.
Terry,
I had not seen the comment before so thanks for reposting. I am touched by your story and honored by your words. Thank you.
Jim
Thanks, Jim. Some of your words will be shared from our pulpit this Sunday – credited to you. It is an appropriate Easter season topic for Christians – and Presbyterians especially – for us to be bold in the gospel proclamation. One of my parishioners found your blog and brought it to our attention.
I’m honored for you to use it, Janet. Where do you serve?
Jim:
I read this article about a little fish that one politician would like to wipe off the face of the earth to help us deal with the budget deficit… and it disturbed me deeply especially reading it on earthday.
http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2012/04/21/op-ed-endangered-species-act-prime-example-of-federal-overreach/
I love the depth and insight you have offered on so many other values areas… in short – What would Jesus do?
Jim,
Thank you for this blog.. You put your personal neck way out for it but it’s things that need to be said..
As many, I found you due to the popularity of your “Ten things’ blog..
I grew up a ‘Base Brat’ and most places I live had the 8:30 Catholic service and the 10:00 Protestant service, I went to the latter and most would say I was a devout Christian for most of my life but that path was not to be (God works in mysterious ways) I never lost my love for the teaching of Jesus but I lost my love for the ‘Church’ and found my attitude to coincide with the bumper sticker “Its not Jesus that bothers me, It’s his fan club’
I found peace in the old religions… The Father and the Mother…
Thank You. Peace Be With You.
K.
PS: the best way to figure out how to fix your “Follow me on FB link’ ask a 14yo…
Kevin, Thank you for commenting and for sharing some of your experience. Finding a 14 year old is good advice. Jim
I am an antitheist and thus we would likely disagree on several points. I am commenting here because from what I’ve read you are a rational intelligent man and I wanted to extend my hand to you, a fellow human, trying to do good for others. Thank you.
Matthew,
I’m honored that you would read the blog. I’m not sure if we would disagree on much. If we did disagree on some things, it doesn’t sound like they would be enough to prevent us from working together to make a better world. Anyone who reaches across boundaries, has reverence for nature and for humankind already understands what I am trying to teach. I may use the poetry of religion to express my reverence, but I would never let that come between us. My faith always kneels before the truths of reason and science. So, please know the respect is mutual.
Jim
“My faith always kneels before the truths of reason and science.” Interesting statement…. My faith stands in the midst of absolutes and unknowns alike. My faith is not based on how I feel or what I think. My faith isn’t based on the opinions of others. My faith in it’s entirety rests completely on the Word of God and my total trust in Him alone.
You may call me a radical and say I am being judgemental and narrow-minded I could care less. For you my friend are unfortunately wrong. You pervert truth to apply to everyones acceptance. You have no foundation other than tolerance and acceptance. I am only grieved by the fact that you are a minister and have the opportunity to spread these diabolical, demonic lies to precious ears that are in need of absolute truth not this acceptable grey area. I pray for you that God would reveal Himself to you in a greater way and that the eyes of your understanding would truly be enlightened with God’s precious truth.
Don,
Let’s see if I’m following your argument. My statement was “my faith always kneels before truths of reason and science” which you then paraphrase as yielding to whatever I think or what I feel or the opinions of others. You then say that I might call you certain names which you list out of thin air, implying you are the one being attacked. You then use the “Word of God” as your witness, without any reference to why it would be on your side and not mine. Have I presented your argument accurately?
By the way, Aquinas also believed that faith would never violate reason or fact. Would you say he has a demon as well?
Jim
Just curious, Jim – What Bible software might you be a user of?
Frederick, I don’t have any on this particular computer yet. I’ve had software in the past and love it, but I haven’t loaded any on this laptop. Right now I’m just using biblos.com, bible gateway, and sites like that. I also like textweek.com. The church refurbished my office and a lot of my reference books are in storage right now, but my memory is pretty good on those things. I do have the Greek and Hebrew texts on my desk, and I have topical and other concordances nearby. It’s pretty bare bones right now.
Do you have a suggestion for biblical software?
There are actually quite a few possibilities out there nowadays, Jim, depending on your platform. I run Windows, and I use two programs the most:
e-Sword (freeware, but there are also some good premium modules available) has been around a long time, is an excellent basic program, and it does most of what I want.
Logos (commercial) is fantastic for searching resources and for comparison of texts. (I certainly underutilize Logos myself.)
Thank you. I’ll check it out.
Jim:
Just stumbled across a post on Facebook and had to come check out your other thoughts here. While I am not a person of organized religion at all, I do appreciate the rare intelligent and sensible approach of those such as yourself reaching out to convey logic in hopes of making this world we live in a better place. I have now bookmarked you. 🙂 One question – I can’t seem to locate your original post of “10 Things I Wish the Church Knew About Homosexuality” . Can you provide the link? And yes, that is the post that drew me to your site.
Nicki, Thank you for the kind words. I’ll see if I can drum up the link. Jim
Jim,
I saw your post “Ten Things I Wish ….” and re-shared it on Facebook and many of my friends have liked it and shared it as well.
Coming here I find that you have written a great deal that I find very relevant and in tune with my thinking. Perhaps that’s because I grew up in the UCC.
Like Nicki above, I am not a member of any organized religion, but I hope that people/Christians who think as you do are not so rare, just probably not as loud and obnoxious as those who thrive on controversy and the attention it brings them – especially when promoted on TV.
I would like to make a suggestion about your Facebook presence. The “Follow Me on Facebook” button ‘links’ us to your personal profile and to follow you, we have to friend you. I recommend that you start a “Page” separate from your personal profile so you can keep your friends separate from your fans. I don’t friend people I don’t know but I have a business ‘page’ that anyone can like and subscribe to. I’m sure that same 14 yo you find to help with the link can also help with that.
Also – I have a WordPress blog as well. There should be a Widget that allows people to follow your blog via email subscription. I have subscribed to a few and would gladly add yours to my list.
Again – thanks for the wonderful insights.
Peace.
Lila,
First of all thank you for taking the time to give such helpful advice. I’m not sure I can figure this out but I’ll give it a try. I’ll look for the widget as well. Thank you so much for the info.
Jim
POINT:
1. If Jesus did not mention a subject, it cannot be essential to his teachings.
2. You are not being persecuted when prevented from persecuting others.
3. Truth isn’t like wine that gets better with age, It’s more like manna you must recognize wherever you are and whoever you are with.
4. You cannot call it “special rights” when someone asks for the same rights you have.
5. It is no longer your personal religious view if you’re bothering someone else.
6. Marriage is a civil ceremony, which means it’s a civil right.
7. If how someone stimulates the pubic nerve has become the needle to your moral compass, you are the one who is lost.
8. To condemn homosexuality, you must use parts of the Bible you don’t yourself obey. Anyone who obeyed every part of Leviticus would rightly be put in prison.
9. If we do not do the right thing in our day, our grandchildren will look at us with same embarrassment we look at racist grandparents.
10. When Jesus forbade judging, that included you.
* Jim Rigby
COUNTERPOINT:
TEN THINGS I WISH HOMOSEXUALS KNEW ABOUT THE CHURCH
1. It was the Spirit of Christ Jesus who inspired the 44 authors of the 66 books of the bible to write one unified, consistent and non-contradictory testimony to Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Messiah, presenting a single way of access to sinful man’s atonement to a holy God, and therefore every word that was penned into the Law, the Prophets, the Wisdom Books, the Gospels, the Epistles, and the Revelation were in their very conception, authorship, canonization, and preservation through the ages, the work and truth of Jesus Christ. And although no New Testament author recorded Jesus ever speaking out on the issue of homosexuality, which was hardly an issue in first century Judaism anyway (and that is not to say He didn’t preach on it at some point!), He did speak clearly, authoritatively, and frequently on this very issue through the Old Testament prophets and the New Testament Authors as the divine inspiration for all of Scripture (2 Tim. 3:16).
2. The view that the church is persecuting homosexuals is an insult to all first century Christians under Nero, to all Holocaust Jews of the 1940’s, to all mistreated African slaves and their descendants in every age, and to all women and homosexuals who are subjected to Sharia law of Islam. The church is the Body of Christ, albeit imperfect until the rapture, and so long as it remains true to the doctrines established by God in His written Word and faithful to her mission to be the hands, feet and voice of Jesus Christ, the Head of the church which was commissioned by Christ (Mt. 28:19 and 20!) and empowered by His indwelling Spirit, it is duty bound to proclaim the Good News of salvation to unbelievers and to make disciples of them as Christians (little Christs) that they obey the Word of God. Proclamations of and defense of God’s precepts are not persecutions; they are testimonies of God’s will and grace for all men.
3. Truth is eternal: “I am the way, the truth and the life,” said Jesus, so truth is not a concept authored in antiquity nor is it relative to changing societal norms, but rather it is embodied in the person of Jesus Christ, who was “in the beginning…, and the Word was with God and the Word was God…. Then “the Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us” (Jn 1:1, 14), and just before His betrayal in the Garden, He prayed these words to the Father, “Your word is truth” (Jn. 17:17), both written and incarnate.
4. The apologetics against homosexual marriage is not an argument framed within a human rights issue, it is rather a moral one, since God Himself established marriage in the Garden of Eden as between a man and a woman with the single divine purpose and mandate to “be fruitful and increase in number, fill the earth” (Gen. 1:28); a mandate which homosexual marriage is without purpose or means of doing so. (See also item 6).
5. Religious viewpoints, regardless of their basis in truth, is a constitutionally protected freedom in America under the first amendment, and expressing them either privately or publicly is also protected under the same amendment, regardless of whom it may offend, and it is the Christians privilege and obligation to cast the light of God’s truth on this and all moral issues in an otherwise dark (biblically uninformed) world so long as it is done with love! Please forgive the excesses of overly zealous Christians; Christians are sinners, too.
6. Marriage in the church is a holy union established by God (Gen. 2:22) and divinely intended to be between “male and female,” which is in stark contrast to the contemporary secular ‘civil unions,’ which afford certain legal rights but without moral standing or divine approval, so why insist that it be officiated by and within the sanctity of the church? It is not the homosexual’s lifestyle that is under attack but rather the sanctuary of Christ’s holy church.
7. Homosexuality is not an unforgivable sin any more than heterosexual extramarital sex or, for that matter, stealing a penny’s worth of candy – all of which, or any one of which in God’s economy cause(s) man to “fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23). So the church, while her heart pines over the homosexual’s willing defiance of the will of God, is therefore moved out of a motivation of love – granted sometimes inappropriately and clumsily – to bring the truth of Scripture to bear as legitimate argument for proclaiming God’s will to disobedient men as well as for defending the bastions of the church tradition and doctrine, all of which are rooted in the Word of God. To judge the Christian’s motive to be any other than this is to break the very commandment against judging others that the church herself is being accused of breaking. It is my observation that the homosexual movement is actively engaged in a deliberate attempt to silence the church and render her both impotent and vulnerable to syncretism (Col. 2:8; James 4:4) and ultimately, destruction. The church should never condone behavior which God has called “an abomination” (Lev. 18:22; 20:13), but neither should she be intolerant of the God-given free will choice of non-Christians to engage in it so long as it does not threaten the integrity, witness, or security of the church. Morality is defined by the divine morality Giver – God almighty – and He is the Christian’s moral compass. The defense of morality within the sanctity of the church must never be accomplished at the abrogation of “the royal law found in Scripture, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’” (James 2:8), but neither must it surrender to such an extreme degree of tolerance that immorality is thereby condoned.
8. If Leviticus 18:22-30 and 20:13 along with verses 22-23 were the only references to the divine condemnation of homosexuality, Christians might well be guilty of hypocrisy for denying its authority in the Christians’ lives, but taken in conjunction with all of Scripture (Gen. 18:20-21; 19:1, 4-9, 24-29; Isa. 3:8-9; Mt. 5:17-19; Rom. 1:26-27; 1 Cor. 7:2; Gal. 5:19-21; Eph. 5:31; Heb. 13:4, 8), none of which contradicts itself on this issue, it must be taken seriously as divine truth by every disciple of Christ, and be understood as divine warning to all who defy it unto judgment (1 Cor. 5:9-10).
9. Doing rightly is not defined by societal norms but rather by the Word of God (Ps. 33:4; 119:44; Prov. 1:2-3; 14:12; Hos. 14:8), so standing on the Rock of Ages is a much safer place to be than on the shifting sands of man-made laws or political movements, regardless of the invectives, the demeaning epithets, the ad homonyms and the condescending demagoguery Christians are required to endure because of it, for it was predicted that Christ’s followers would be hated by the world because it first hated Him (Mt. 10:22). Christ was called to live in the world throughout His earthly ministry, but was not of the world and so it goes also for His church. Christ never turned a blind eye to sin, but with a perfect blend of love, mercy and justice, condemned it, forgave those who came to Him in repentance, and ultimately died for them to be reconciled to a Holy God. Therefore, neither must the church turn a blind eye to sin, but rather point the sinner to the only One who defeated sin, and paid the ransom for the sinner to be saved from it both in this world and at judgment.
10. Refusal to condone immoral behavior (as defined not by man, but by God, the author of morality) must never be confused with or considered to be judgment. Only the Holy Spirit convicts one of sin (Jn 16:8), which produces shame for one’s actions, motives and/or thoughts that are outside the will of God, so if a Christian reveals the immorality of such in the homosexual’s life, it is not the judgment by the church that is being felt, but rather that of God Himself, Judge of all – saved and unsaved. Please do not condemn the messenger who, out of loving concern for the homosexuals’ immortal souls, boldly brings the truth of God’s Word and of His will in every sinner’s life.
END POINT:
At the end of the day, the real issue is not homosexuality or any type-of-ality at all, but rather it is one’s relationship with the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ that matters. Jesus taught that “If you love me you will keep my commandments” (Jn. 14:15) and He also declared that He had not come to abolish the law or prophets but to fulfill (Mt. 5:17), and that, furthermore, “until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished” (v. 18). Do you love Jesus? Obey Him. Obey Him not just in some of His commandments, but in all of them. One’s willful choice to disobey may well be inviting the words, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness” (Mt. 7:23). Jesus loves you, a sinner, regardless of your sexual proclivities. Love Him back through obedience to His commandments – all of them.
Daniel Faust
Daniel: I did read and agree with your point by point dissertation. We cannot seperate our beliefs from our lives and not be hypocrites. Look me up as “Tango Papa” on Face Book.
Thank you Daniel, for a cogent response to the difficult discussion of homosexual behavior.
I just saw a post of your “10 Things You Wish The Church Knew About Homosexuality” and I’m a bit confused.
In John 2124-25 John wrote “24This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.” By this statement alone, it shows Jesus did and taught so much more than was recorded. But let’s leave this alone and move onto another book, Timothy.
In 1 Timothy 1:8-11 we read the following, “8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.” This is pretty clear to me. Now your argument is Jesus never said anything regarding Homosexuality. However, a basic tenet of the Christian is the belief that God and Jesus are one in the same along with the Holy Spirit. If you discount this, then you are not a Christian that I recognize and therefore we are done. If, however, you do believe this to be a fact as I do, then you know that the Bible is the infallible Word of God and that everything written and recorded was set there by God’s direction. Therefore, the teachings of Paul to Timothy are the words God/Jesus gave Paul and therefore, a direct teaching from Jesus on the matter.
I believe Jesus in fact DID hang out with those deemed undesirable by the religious establishment. Jesus taught Love. However, continuing to tell someone that is lost and traveling down a path that will lead to eternal destruction is NOT LOVE but rather the type of contempt and hate that satan shows us on a daily basis as he tries to cause our destruction.
I’m concerned for you and your teachings. I’m concerned you’re leading people astray and will be judged by God accordingly. Please consider this warning in the love that it was intended. I’m just a man, a sinner that struggles daily to live a life worthy of His gift to me, Salvation through His Son Jesus the Christ.
Thomas,
Thanks for expressing your concern. I addressed those arguments at other places in the blog if you’re interested.
Jim
I can’t find the list of those “universal human rights”…
James, just google “declaration of universal human rights” and it will take you to the document.
I am confused by today’s column in the paper. Is it affected by frustration? Or are you literally saying that we are committing a grave sin by owning a church building?
Phyllis, I tried to send you an email because Word Press didn’t let me respond earlier today. My point here, feel free to disagree, is more about claims that God has given us a certain piece of land. I’m referring to Crusades, Jihads and claims that a certain piece of real estate has been give by God to a certain group of people so they are fighting for it on God’s behalf. My church has a building and property as well, but we’ve never claimed God gave it to us as opposed to, say, the Methodists. Does that make better sense?
Jim, I am looking for a host family for an atheist student and we are having problems finding a family who is okay with hosting him because of this. My friends Jack McCauley and Sondra Gadd Sondregger told me I should ask you if you know of anyone who may be willing to host him for the school year. Thanks in advance!
We have a number of atheists in our church. I don’t think anyone would care. If you like I can ask our community and/or ask on my blog. Would that help?
Daniel,
I’m not sure I understand your message. Here is what I think you are saying, correct me if I’m wrong. It seems to me you are first assuming I’m gay and then impling that Paul was condemning people like me in the passages you want to use to attack homosexuals. Implying someone is gay, in your mind, instantly disqualifies them from the conversation, so you don’t have to refute anything they’ve said, or even prove that they really are gay. You just have to say that and you win the debate. Am I understanding you?
Jim
Absolutely NOT! How about actually reading my post before activating an auto-response that is totally inappropriate? I make no assumption about your sexual preferences, as you have made about my motives behind my response.
Daniel, I’m sorry, I’m not sure what you are addressing here. What auto-response are you talking about?